A final salute to Root to Table 2022, enjoy a late afternoon of Agri Cultural culinary excellence presented by Taste of Blue Ridge. This All-Star event will salute four chefs and a rising star that are vested in our culinary /agricultural community and committed to local sourcing.
Taste of Blue Ridge Top Chefs for “Four Sensational Chefs at Patowmack” Dec 4
Begin your holiday season with a vibrant four-course dinner at the beautifully holiday decorated Restaurant at Patowmack Farm. Inspired by the fantastic food grown and raised here in the United States, our chefs represent diverse culinary backgrounds showcased in the dinner courses you will savor at this Root to Table event.
The evening begins with passed hors d’oeuvres while taking in the stunning views of the Potomac River. 2021 saw Virginia trout to Virginia beef, Maine oysters, Indiana duck from a family farm, Blue Crab, and Loudoun County winter farm vegetables. The 2022 menu is coming soon and your palette will be in for an outstanding culinary experience.
Join restaurant owners, chefs, farmers, and of course, our passionate food friends for an exciting event!
About The Restaurant at Patowmack Farm
The Restaurant at Patowmack Farm presents a dining experience that is unique in and of itself. With the perfect venue: glass conservatory, gazebo, and open-air tent, guests are able to enjoy an unforgettable evening savoring organic, local, progressive cuisine while taking in one of the most spectacular views in all of Loudoun County.
The Prix Fixe menu is offered on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday evenings. Saturday and Sunday a Brunch/Lunch menu is available. The menus give you the opportunity to dine on sustainable, local, organic cuisine that is reflective of the seasons. Add the wine pairing to the prix fixe menu and experience the balance between food and wine.
Celebrating in DC? We asked a Kosher Expert for Perfect Passover Wines for Passover 2024
Passover starts Monday April 22 at sundown and ends April 30th. But today’s conversation is about the flavors of Seder dinner.
Jay Buchsbaum
Royal Wine and Kosher.com’s Jay Buchsbaum visits to talk about flavor, tradition, tastes for every family member and what’s exciting in the wine world for 2024.
This conversation has been edited for length and clarity. For the full, unedited conversation, visit our FlavRReport YouTube channel.
Joe Winger: Jay, welcome back. I appreciate that you’re returning. Last time was great and we learned alot.
Jay Buchsbaum: Thank you for having me. Wow. This is great. So getting invited back for a second date, that’s really cool.
Joe Winger: Passover is just around the corner and we want to talk about different over wines to enjoy during the celebration and some great wine pairings.
I wanted to start off with what might be one of the popular new bottles – Carmel Black Cabernet Sauvignon.
Jay Buchsbaum: It’s very hot and the reason it’s very hot is because people want something that’s rich and flavorful, especially the American palate, what we call the New World style.
Opulence, fruit forward, but they don’t want to spend a fortune like you’d have to from some fancy vineyard in Napa or from Judean Hills. When it comes to Israel or the Golan Heights, and this is one of those wines where they’ve put together this at the beginning of opulence, lots of fruit forwardness, 14 months in oak and about $25.
So it’s really one of those really wonderful wines. What I noticed, and they say they forgot to do it, but I noticed that it does not have an appellation specific, except for Israel. The reason I believe the winemaker did that – I don’t know for sure – he talks about it on the back [of the bottle] that they brought the grapes from some of the finest vineyards. He chose small amounts [of grapes] from the best vineyards from different places and put them all together, carefully crafting it so that it’s big and rich and flavorful and still under $30 bucks.
Joe Winger: That sounds amazing. What are some good food pairings that you’d recommend with it?
Jay Buchsbaum: A roast would be great. On the first and second night of Passover, we don’t officially roast anything because we don’t want people to think that it was a sacrificial lamb that was done in Egypt because we don’t have it today yet.
Until the reestablishment of the temple on the Temple Mount at some future time.
So people cook a roast in the oven, it’s not barbecued. That’s what they’re talking about from a historical, spiritual sense – but a delicious roast, maybe chicken marsala, where you have mushrooms and caramelized onions, you have a really rich flavor to go with that.
A lot of the Sephardic foods are like that too. We talked about traditional foods. Traditional foods from where? Sometimes it’s Eastern Europe, sometimes it’s Middle Eastern, and sometimes it’s Sephardic.
Lots of seders have a mix of all [cuisines] because you have melded families.
Joe Winger: Royal Wine currently has a wide roster of wine suggestions for Passover Something for every adult at the table, from Grandpa to 25 year old Grand-daughter and her boyfriend.
Jay Buchsbaum: That’s a great point. I’m going to give you the last one first only because I thought this was so much fun when I thought about it and I actually might do it.
Let’s say the boyfriend is coming over. He wants to bring you something and he doesn’t know what to get you because, he’s not that observant..
So I thought, why don’t you end the meal with something Sparkling. The Momentous Rosé. That might be fun. You go out with a pop, so to speak. There’s Vera Wang’s Prosecco Rose that’s also wonderful. Both around $20.
But if you want to go really high end, why not go with the Rothschild Brut Rosé from Champagne, which is magnificent. It’s 100% Pinot Noir, and about $100 a bottle.
So you have great diversity and accessible and quite delicious sparkling wines.
Grandpa, or if you have a real fine wine guy. You have beautiful wines from the Rothschild vineyards, the Haute Medoc. which is in the upper $30s, and then you even have Grand Cru’s LesCombes, Grand Cru Margaux as an example, and some amazing wines from the Herzog Winery in California like the Alexander Valley Herzog Reserve, or the Napa Valley Herzog Reserve.
We have a beautiful Lake County Reserve Cabernet from California. Big, opulent, delicious, mouth filling.
I start my Seder usually with a rosé. The reason for that is because you’re starting your Seder, having eaten nothing pretty much since the morning. So you’re on an empty stomach and the tradition is to finish at least the first glass. So I try to start with a rosé. It’s a little lighter, a little lower in alcohol, a little lighter in texture and, and I like to start with an Israeli wine first.
Joe Winger: Iis there a hidden gem as far as just high quality with amazing value?
Jay Buchsbaum: There’s a really wonderful wine from New Zealand.
It’s a white wine, not a red wine. It’s made by the Rothschild family, but it’s made in New Zealand, called Rimapere Sauvignon Blanc. Less than $30 for sure. Fresh, sweet lemons, but with enough acidity and structure, almost like a palette cleanser.
Joe Winger: Anything that you’re looking forward to in the next few months that wine lovers should be getting excited for?
Jay Buchsbaum: We were missing rosés from Israel for a whole year because of the sabbatical year. We skipped that vintage of roses, and so they’re back for the first time in 24 months for this Passover.
I love some of the new Italian wines. One of them to take a look at is Cantina Giuliano. it’s a boutique winery. They make 3,000 – 4,000 cases maximum. It’s run by a young couple and I just had them over at my house for Sabbath Shabbat. His wines blew people away.
I think the most exciting thing is our new winemaker and what our new winemakers is doing with our grapes. His selection and his final product over at the Herzog Wine Cellars. And that could be
Our new winemaker, his name is David Galzignato. He’s with us about three years and he has a background that is with some of the finest and smallest, medium sized boutiques.
He was going to be moving to France, going to go for his MW [masters of wine] and they asked him if he’d come and consider working with us and he did. He has been making literally blow your brains out wonderful wines so our Napa Cabernet, our Alexander Valley Cabernet are just up and down the line, the wines, especially the reds are just rich and opulent.
He got Joseph Herzog to buy a visual sorter, they range in cost between a $100,000 – 1 million dollar machine.
What they do is when the grapes come in [during harvest] and there’s something called sorting tables.
Done by hand [vineyard workers literally sorting through the harvested grape bunches, looking for] damaged or a little beat up or whatever, and they only allow the perfect grapes to go through.
This visual sorter does this electronically by computer, so nothing is missed, zero. As a result, the grape quality is much higher
Famously said in The New Yorker Years ago, “There’s only three things that matter in good winemaking. Good grapes. Good grapes. Good grapes.”
So, the fruit that we get and the fruit that we end up making wine out of is literally the most important thing.
By using these kinds of methods, which are not inexpensive. But the quality is through the roof. We’re looking to make a 100 point wine one of these days and I think it might we might get close this year.
DC Wine Lovers Demand Flavor: 1000 Stories Wines delivers with Bourbon Barrel Aged Zinfandel
At 1000 Stories Wines, they share that same bold roaming spirit, which is why each of their wines tell incredible stories of exploration and discovery.
In every bottle thy hope you’ll find journeys, encounters, people and places—stories that stoke the roaming spirit in all of us so that once your grass of wine is finished, you set out once again to create the next chapter in our stories.
Margaret Leonardi from 1000 Stories Wines
Today we’re talking with Margaret Leonardi from 1000 Stories Wines. The below conversation has been editing for length and clarity. For the full, unedited version, check out our FlavRReport YouTube channel.
Just to get to know you a little bit better, can you tell us more about what inspired you to get into the wine business?
Margaret Leonardi: I’m originally from an organic dairy farm in Northern California, so just the county north of here. We’re in Mendocino County. I’m from Humboldt County, so just the closest wine growing region from home. The wine industry is so much more glamorous and romantic than the dairy industry. I’ve been making wine since 2009. Now my whole life is the wine industry.
My husband is a winemaker too. We live in a vineyard. We’re in the middle of harvest right now. We’ve been harvesting for over a month now. We’ll harvest hopefully through Halloween.
How’s it going this year? Are the grapes looking good?
Margaret Leonardi: Pretty average yields. It’s a little later as a whole than normal harvest. Not noteworthy, but maybe a couple of weeks depending on the region, the variety. It’s tasting good. The chemistries are nice. Good acids. So far we’re happy but we’re only halfway done.
The brand is called 1,000 Stories. On your website it mentions each of your wines tell incredible stories of exploration, discovery. Where does the idea of stories come from?
Margaret Leonardi: There’s a lot of stories around how we came up with the name and how we got from point A to point B, but everyone has their own rendition, which is just ironic that it’s 1000 stories. Our consumer is adventurous, and likes to roam and wander and connect with people. So all those people, each adventure you go on, and each new connection you make, you have new stories, and you have new stories to share, and you can share our wines together.
You mentioned the word “explore”. Up in your area is Yellowstone National Park, and a thousand stories that you guys partnered with Yellowstone Forever.
Margaret Leonardi: That’s a new partnership for this year. The official non profit partner with Yellowstone, and their main focus is bison conservation. With our label, our mascot is a bison. The partnership promotes bison conservation, make sure their population is safe and healthy.
It’s a beautiful design. Tell me about how the bottle itself was created and how you decided what should be on that bottle?
Margaret Leonardi: We have three SKUs that are bourbon barrel aged. Our first is the Zinfandel, the OG of the portfolio, this came out first and then in the Bourbon Barrel Age side, we also have a Cabernet Sauvignon and a Red Blend.
Then we have an American Barrel Aged section that’s Pinot Noir and Chardonnay, so not Bourbon Barrel Aged, just American Oak. That would be used for normal winemaking, and then we have our newest corn sku, it’s a Sauvignon Blanc, and this is just stainless steel and some concrete aging.
The Bourbon barrel aged [popularity] has grown. We have customers who want more diversity, more variety. So we’ve expanded the set.
On the Zinfandel [label], we have our mascot the bison. Another noteworthy thing with this is on the Zin, because it was our first.
Each time we get bourbon barrels, we go through a 3rd party broker. So we’re not working directly with any distillers. We have a mix of the distilleries these bourbon barrels are shipping to us from, so they’re all different.
We’re filling finished Zinfandel in these barrels and then we taste each one.
Some can be really bourbon-y, really potent. A lot of fresh dill. Some can have less bourbon influence and it’s more smoky, toasty.
So we have to really craft each one. We’re tasting a bunch of lots and crafting the blend for the finished product.
That’s when we decided to put the batch number [on the bottle]. Because as a whole, the backbone of the wine tastes very similar, but there are some little minute differences. We wanted to convey that to the consumer with the batch number because you can tell [each bottle] tastes a little different.
Bourbon barrel has become very popular. How was that method chosen at your winery?
Margaret Leonardi: It was a practice from the original winemaker, the founding winemaker, Bob Blue, who just retired a couple of years ago.
We were innovating, thinking of new wine ideas, and this is a practice that he used 20 plus years ago. [Back then] French oak wine barrels were pretty pricey, like a luxury commodity to use. So he was looking at different alternatives to age his wines here at Fetzer.
He had this idea. Bourbon and whiskey barrels were cheaper.
We bought some bourbon barrels and tried it. We were like, we should bottle this, not blend this into a bigger portion. This should be its own bottle. That was in 2014, our first vintage.
I started with the company in 2015. I was here at the beginning, so I saw some of the evolution and then Bob has retired and he’s passed the torch to Sebastian and I.
Let’s talk a little bit about the different varietals. The process, the styles aromas, flavor notes.
Margaret Leonardi: The first original Zinfandel is our classic. I say classic because Zinfandel’s kind of an American grape variety, it’s very Americana. It goes with our whole spirit of the brand, and It’s what Mendocino County and Mendocino is known for.
We grow really great Zinfandel’s up here, it’s a nice and warm climate. We’ve also expanded, now we’re sourcing some of the fruit from Lodi as well, which is also a really great growing region for Zinfandel. They’re also known for their Zin.
It’s blended with some Petite Syrah. Just to give the color a little more enhancement. Some more tannin structure. We want the whole backbone of the blend to be bold. You’re supposed to match the bison. Big style, bold characteristics. We pick them when the fruit is really ripe. It’s pretty hot. Then we finish it in bourbon barrels and we can use a little bit of American oak, French oak in there too, just to give it some oak enhancement. Usually around 15 percent alcohol in the finished product.
The unique part of the Zinfandel itself is the blackberries. It’s really juicy, some cranberry and then the bourbon barrel aging process is just where you get some like dried herbs, oregano, thyme. Toffee characteristics from the toastiness of the bourbon barrel itself.
The point is to have a really strong wine. We want to have a really strong wine. We don’t want it to waft bourbon and we don’t want the bourbon to sit on top of the wine. We want them to be really integrated and just like a finish, not overwhelming or overpowering.
It’s very well balanced. Were there any challenges in finding the balance or was it pretty straightforward?
Margaret Leonardi: It’s not pretty straightforward. We wish. The barrels coming from the distillers can vary. They can be emptied the week before [and be very fresh]. They can be emptied a month [and be less fresh]. So how much has evaporated, how much has been absorbed into the wood. Those are unknown factors. So it’s a bunch of trial and error. So it’s fun, but it’s a lot of work. We want some consistency, but we want a little bit of difference.
You’ve mentioned Sebastian Donoso. Tell us about him. How the two of you balance roles.
Margaret Leonardi: He’s the winemaker for the Bourbon Barrel Aged Wines. Before we were both collaborating with Bob, it was more like a team effort. When Bob stepped down, we also had the new American Barrel Aged Pinot and Chard and the Sauvignon Blanc’s brand new.
Sebastian took the Bourbon Barrel Aged because he was working on those more, and then I took the other half. We work together.
Before we move on, I don’t want to forget the Sauvignon Blanc. Process, styles, aromas, the taste?
Margaret Leonardi: This just came out in April of this year so I’m really excited. I think it’s still working its way across the nation, but I’m really happy with this wine. I really like the way it came out and I got to make it from scratch. I made exactly what I wanted. It’s nice when you make something that you really like to drink too. The fruit that we source for this comes from the majority from the Arroyo Seco region, so down Monterey, central coast of California, which is just a really nice growing region, Bay Area influence. Warm days and then cool evenings. A little bit comes from just up here in Mendocino County. Then the rest is from Lodi.
A unique thing is it’s blended with 10% Viognier. The Viognier is an ironic blender for Sauvignon Blanc, but it’s like in the spirit of things bold, I have this Viognier that I really like. It’s really concentrated, ripened flavors. A lot of peach and nectarine flavors, so I thought it could be really interesting in a Sauvignon Blanc.
I fermented them separate and then blended this percentage in there and It’s really interesting because the Sauvignon Blanc has a little bit of grassy, grapefruit, citrus aromas,
The Viognier twist makes it almost a little floral, but you get those white peach, stone fruit flavors pop a little more because of that Viognier.
It’s all stainless steel, fermented and aged, so it has no oak contact. I do some concrete eggs. I think it enhances the texture and makes it a little more mineral-y.
Are you a foodie? Can you please suggest some really delicious dishes that pair with these bottles?
Margaret Leonardi: That is a nice thing about our portfolio expanding, because before we had the three reds. So it’s similar food pairings. Now that we’ve expanded, we can have almost a wine for any dish. The Zinfandel and all of the bourbon barrel aged wines go really great with barbecue or smoked meat, ribs, red meats. It’s a good “occasion wine”, right? If you’re going to a friend’s house for a barbecue or somewhere where you want to grab a bottle of wine, but you aren’t sure what – it’s a crowd pleaser, it’s a perfect conversation starter. Sporting events soccer games, Super Bowl, that kind of thing.
Then the Sauvignon Blanc pairs well with oysters, light sauce pastas, cream based pastas. It’s also great just appetizer wine. I think the Viognier is different. It is fun to start with it. So if you’re coming over and not sure what to open or if you’re having a dinner party, it’s like a great wine to kick off the night with.
You can explore it and then it transitions well with food, especially as it warms up a little.
Where we can find you follow and find that all this stuff both to buy as well as on social media
Margaret Leonardi: The brand as a whole is available through our website. They’re also available at any grocery stores around the whole country.
Philly Cocktails! Now Madre Mezcal offers a Gateway to a Better Taste
Today’s conversation is with Ryan Fleming from Madre Mezcal. The LA nightlife veteran reveals his time working behind the bar in some of Southern California’s hottest spots, as well as the inspiration that got him to travel to Mexico, discovering Mezcal.
The aroma, flavors, science and food pairings for Mezcal.
Love Tequila? Discover the Gateway to better taste with Madre Mezcal’s Ryan Fleming
This conversation has been edited for length and clarity. For the full, unedited conversation, visit our YouTube Channel.
“…I’ve been a big Mezcal lover before I ever sold it…”
Joe Winger: Can you share the behind the scenes or how the brand itself was created?
Ryan Fleming: I’ve been a big Mezcal lover before I ever even sold it or made a dollar doing that. So I got to actually meet Ron Cooper, who is the legend that started the Del Maguey label back in 2011.
I got to drink rabbit Pachuca with him and all these other amazing things. The reason I bring him up is he’s a kind of one of the people that we look up to, how to sustainably bring a brand and how to create culture that crosses boundaries in a sense.
He has a beautiful book that I recommend anyone to read if you haven’t read Ron Cooper’s book.
But we share a similar story. One of our founding partners, Tony Farfalla and one of my good friends, Stefan Tony’s an artist and he was literally traveling through Oaxaca doing documentaries and embracing the art and culture. He happened to meet Jose Morales, which is the first family we ever worked with.
If you have original bottles of Madre [Mezcal] before the labels have changed, it used to say Jose’s name on the bottle.
So Tony was bringing bottles back to Brooklyn in plastic water bottles and it snowballed. His friends in Brooklyn were like, this stuff’s great. Started out in plastic water bottles in 2014. I think it was 2016 when our first glass bottles actually came by and we became like of a more legit brand and company. But it started with Tony and Stefan; and they brought on our CEO and COO, Chris and Davide.
Chris actually is one of the founding driving forces in the electronic scene in the 90s in Europe. Chris comes from a very artistic, music based background. Then he went on to work for some bigger alcohol brands in the vodka world.
Davide, who is our COO, my direct boss, who I love, is Italian and his whole family built furniture and he got his big break by importing and bringing furniture over [to the United States]. He also works with a beautiful high end apparel line.
“…everyone has a very unique artistic background, which really reflects the brand and the label…”
So everyone has a very unique artistic background, which really reflects the brand and the label. Just not wanting to make a quick buck and actually make something we can stand behind and believe in.
As the families now blossom into four, we use three: the Vasquez family, the Blas family and the Morales family are our three main producers for our red and black label, which most people are familiar with.
We just brought in Moises and he’s actually from Santa Catarina Minas. That’s a little town where all they really make is their production. It’s a town known for nothing but clay pot distillation. So if you actually use a copper pot in, in Manera and Santa Caterina Minas, you’re looked at as what are you doing? That’s not what we do here.
He’s our last and newest producer and he may be the most cowboy of them all, and he’s my favorite.
When you get to Tlaxcala, you have to walk over like a little rope bridge over like a river and stuff into the hills of Minas to see his production, and he’s got his grandfather’s old still, and he’s got his mom’s little kitchen that he wants to reopen, and it’s like a restaurant. But if you and I were to look at it, it just looks like a backyard set of tables and chairs with a cooking center.
No, this is a restaurant for the village. It’s really beautiful down in Minas. I recommend everyone, if you get a chance to go down there, it felt like the jungles in Costa Rica, cause it’s up near the hills and it’s just so green and lush up there.
“…I’ve been working in the alcohol industry for almost 15 years …”
Joe Winger:What got you down there? Was it for a vacation or for Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
So I’ve been working in the alcohol industry for almost 15 years and I worked for the Houston Hospitality Group for over a decade, helping run programs and menus. I worked for a couple other restaurants, but I used to work for Stillhouse Whiskey, which many people remember the terrible flavored moonshine in a gas can.
Yeah I actually sold that. I did pretty well, there was always one flavor that someone loved. I had the mint chocolate chip and I would keep it in the freezer to take care of my sweet tooth when I didn’t have ice cream. So that’s how it started.
My buddy, Stefan, who’s one of the founding partners goes, “Hey, we got this Mezcal company.” I was just basically consulting for free lunches.
One day he goes, do you want to go to Oaxaca? And I went, absolutely.
I familiar with going down to Mexico city, but I’d never been as far South as Oaxaca. So I jumped at the chance.
[Meanwhile] we all got an email from Stillhouse saying “Hey, I know things are being shaken up right now, but trust me, everything’s fine. Don’t worry about it.”
That weekend, apparently the whole team got laid off, but I didn’t get the email untll I came home Monday. They’re saying, “Ryan, are you going to be okay? Do you need help finding work?”
So I went down to Oaxaca, met the families, broke bread with Jose Morales, got to meet his mother who blessed the roast and cooked us dinner. They offered me a job.
That was started my journey about six years ago with Madre [Mezcal ]and I’ve been with him since.
Fleming motions to tattoos on his arms and hands.
Discovering Madre Mezcal
I have it tattooed on my hand right here. I have it tattooed on my palm right here. And I think I have another one on the inside of my leg too. We do tasting events and we’ll have pop up tattoo artists all the time.
Tequila vs Madre Mezcal
Joe Winger:
You mentioned the tastings and the education. Are there quick lessons that you teach the most often?
Ryan Fleming:
Basic production, culture, financial, environmental and economic sustainability.
I don’t think people understand that Oaxaca is the second poorest state in Mexico. Everyone thinks the Mezcal boom must be bringing so many jobs, but it really only affects about 20 – 40,000 people that live in Oaxaca for the production,
Mezcal is great because it does bring some financial sustainability to the families. Jose started off driving a taxi to pay his bills and now he’s making Mezcal in his family’s tradition. His whole family, his cousin, his uncles, they all make Mezcal for a living now.
There’s so much culture behind it. Even the old argument of did the Spanish bring over copper stills and that started distillation or does it go back to the Aztecs and Mayans? Because they found distillate and pottery from 3000 years ago. It’s those little nuances.
People really like to talk about the environmental, but giving back to the people down there by not just buying product, but giving them some ownership, which Madre does do, so that everyone has a little bit of skin in the game.
So I think Sustainability, whether it’s environmental, economical, cultural, and production. Those are the things I really like to talk about.
Joe Winger:What is the basic difference between mezcal and tequila? Or is it more complicated?
Ryan Fleming:
You could say production techniques, additives, mass production are probably the three biggest differences.
Tequila can only be made with one agave. It’s a blue weber. Mezcal can be made with the other 47-ish varietals, and that number is always fluctuating, based on classification and family genius.
Production is the big one. Tequila is made in massive factories and made with either chemicals or steam for the most part.
Whereas mezcal is actually made by hand, roasted in an earthen oven. The biggest thing that separates Tequila and Mezcal is the 1% additive rule.
Tequila can have up to 1% by volume additives, and they don’t have to tell you. That’s why certain large brands will say 100% Agave, but it’s full of additives, because it doesn’t take much with modern chemistry. Just a couple drops of glycerin or vanilla extract to change the flavor and hide all the nuances.
Mezcal can’t have any additives by law.
Joe Winger:Can we walk through the roles and responsibilities between the families that produce Madre Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
Yeah, the four families. Let’s start with Jose Morales. Him and his brother both make mezcal. Now they produce for us in the US exclusively. We encourage all of our families to continue making mezcal to trade. They use it for a local economy.
Every time I go down there, [their operation is growing]. When they started, they had three stills. Now there’s 12 up and running and they have solar power. It’s just so crazy to see how much the transformation has happened.
The original recipe, the blend of cuishe and espadine at 90 proof, that’s his family’s recipe. So we expanded that and we brought on Carlos Blas and the Vasquez family. Unfortunately, Natalio the father passed away a couple of years ago.
His daughters are now producing in the family’s tradition and we take whatever we can from them.
But what we do, that’s a little bit different is, we started out when it was just Jose, he was making the blend himself. Now we have them make the espadine and the cuishe separately.
All three families are part of the process. Sometimes we just get cuiche from Jose. Sometimes Carlos makes all the espadine, but Carlos is like a master blender.
We blend a cold style like Scotch does. Even though it’s not the most traditional way, all the distillation and process is as true as it can be.
But by blending post distillation allows us to keep consistency, which was a huge problem because every batch with your wild fermentation, your wild yeast and all these beautiful nuances, it’ll be inconsistent as you grow as a brand. It was hard for us to keep consistency.
But by blending multiple terroirs and three different families’ production, we can keep a consistent product that tastes the same as well as expanding and bringing on more families to help instead of just going to a large factory house and not making what I would call “traditional Mezcal.”
Joe Winger:So focusing on your background, you mentioned that you’ve been a bartender in the LA nightlife. Any memorable adventures or lessons you can share?
Ryan Fleming:
There are some stories I could tell that I probably don’t want to share publicly. But there are some amazing stories I can tell.
One of the oddest experiences I’ve ever had, I worked at Good Times at Davey Wayne’s, which is one of the most famous bars in the Hollywood nightlife in the past decade.
Paul McCartney showed up at our door.
But because our staff is younger and our door guys are a little bit younger, they thought it was an old weird British man that just showed up and they turned Paul McCartney away from the door.
‘Holy crap, is that Paul McCartney’?
He was like, do you know who I am? The guys [were like] ”We don’t care.” Like straight up, blowing Paul McCartney off. One of our managers came out and was like, ‘Holy crap, is that Paul McCartney’? And they’re like, wait, the guy from the Beatles?!
My manager ran out, “Please come back,” and Paul had a great time at the bar. We got him a special little area to sit down. It was a packed Saturday. It’s not a nightclub where we have gated off [areas]. Even if you reserve a table, people are inches away from you where you’re sitting at your table.
Justin Bieber showed up one time and everyone went nuts. He comes in, walks around, does a loop, comes out and goes, “I thought this was a hip hop club.” and just left.
It was a 1970s themed bar and we played nothing but 70s music.
The dichotomy between the two different generations and to see them all melt into one location was one of the coolest things about working at that bar.
Joe Winger:It’s so crowded because it’s so popular. The Houston Brothers always do such a good job.
Ryan Fleming:
Yeah. The cocktails are still really good too. For as much volume as we used to do there, the biggest thing is how can I make a really beautiful cocktail that’s still cost effective and doesn’t take 12 steps. We got really good at batching stuff and figuring out how to infuse things. Luckily our back of house was just the most amazing. Mariano is the best barback I’ve ever had in my whole life. He’s still there.
He is just a workhorse that got all the infusions. He would cook, he would infuse all of our products and he was just great. Even if we just did a jalapeno infusion on our tequila, if it got too spicy, he could break down the ratio and water it down with more products so that we could keep the spice level approachable.
Joe Winger:
What is the secret to high quantity yet high value cocktails?
Ryan Fleming:
Batching is definitely the way to do it. Any of your alcohols that are shelf stable, you want to put all of those in the proper ratios in a bottle.
Instead of grabbing a modifier and your base spirit and another modifier, you’re grabbing one bottle with a special tape at the bottom, so you know which cocktail it goes to and then all your fresh stuff.
You can’t batch the fresh stuff. It has to be separated because you put citrus in something and it goes bad in three days. Now the whole batch is bad. So keeping your fresh stuff separated.
Joe Winger: Back to Madre Mezcal. Obviously the bottles themselves are where all the power is. So let’s talk about labels and taste profiles.
Ryan Fleming:
People love our labels. Our branding is top notch. It’s one of the first compliments we always get. “Oh my God, I love your branding.”
Madre Mezcal Artesanal
Looked at Oaxacan culture and some other like medieval culture and combined the art from the two.
As far as the red label it’s the woman on the bull. It’s a really beautiful message of Mother Earth coming down and starting to share humanity and move across the world to plants and spread love. That’s why she’s on the bull. It’s the combination of animal, Mother Earth, and humans.
Madre Mezcal Espandin
The black label is a beautiful logo of a woman on the ground. She’s planting and spreading the seed of life that gives us agave and flowers and fruit and vegetables and everything else.
Madre Mezcal Ancestral
The ancestral is this beautiful clay bottle with old clay vessels from Greece that carried wine with the fluid coming out and it’s supposed to celebrate the ancestral way of making mezcal and clay pots and clay distillation.
I always love telling the story of people who say mezcal is not supposed to be aged, which is a true-ish statement in my opinion. But back in the day, everything got transferred in barrels. So Mezcal would accidentally get aged in barrels because it would travel from town to town on horseback after the product was made.
So the idea that Mezcal was never aged is it wasn’t aged on purpose.
Mezcal was accidentally aged in wood. The traditional way that people would age Mezcal is in glass and they would hide it underground.
I always tell people, if you have a beautiful bottle of Mezcal, you should open it and take it out and put a wine cork in it, or at least crack the bottle and get some air because it really lets alcohol open up and aerate.
Mezcal benefits from a resting period. Pouring it in a nice open glass, like a snifter or a wine glass, letting it sit for about 5-10 minutes will really open it up.
Madre Mezcal tasting notes
Madre is designed to be less smoky. I really hate the term smoky. I like the word roasted because what you’re tasting is like barbeque.
You’re tasting the roasting of the agave and the charcoaling and the burning of the outside agave which will affect the sugars, the caramelization.
Madre really was designed to be a more approachable mezcal. We call ourselves ”The gateway to the category.”
We want to bring people from tequila over to Mezcal so you can explore what agave spirits also have to offer.
It’s bright, clean, and smooth. I always compare it to a really nice, made tequila.
Our Espadine is actually a close cousin of [tequila’s] Blue Weber. It tastes really bright, clean and smooth. But you’re going to get some of that minerality and smoke in the end.
Like easy drinking with some earthy aromas.
Joe Winger:That night when I met you, what you handed me was my first taste of the night. I love that it was so pure and smooth. It didn’t clog up my mouth for the rest of the night.
Ryan Fleming:
I’m like you. I want to have 2-3 cocktails a night. Not just one and my palette’s done.
Our Espadine to me is a 2-3 second palette. It clears up and you get like a breath and it’s fading. Our Ensemble goes on for 10- 12 seconds. From sweet vanilla to chocolate to mineral and then to smoke. Then the smoke fades and you get just a really beautiful, crisp. It’s viscous. You can feel the oil in your mouth when you swirl it around and it makes the best Negroni.
Joe Winger:Let’s talk about food pairings.
Ryan Fleming:
I want to know if this caught you off guard, but it’s Italian food.
Very rich foods. These beautiful Mezcals are light and almost floral and fragrant, It cuts through the richness and creaminess of food.
That’s why mezcal and chocolate are consistently paired together, but that was just way too easy. There’s always mezcal chocolate pairings, but like a really nice Italian dish, something creamy and rich, like an Alfredo or a really well done piece of pizza, like a margarita or a white sauce pizza.
“…I want to know if this caught you off guard, but…”
We are working on doing some [pizza] pairings with some places in LA. Do a different slice of pizza with three different cocktails of Madre and then have a tasting at the end.
Chocolate has a big part of Oaxaca too. You can’t not have some chocolate and mezcal at the end of the night.
Espresso martinis are so hot again right now. Try making one with mezcal instead of vodka and just [see] how coffee helps open up the agave and the notes, and you’re going to get so much more going on in your cocktail.
If you pair a nice espresso martini with beautiful, dark chocolate from Oaxaca. That is your final cocktail at the end of the night, it won’t let you down.
Joe Winger:You mentioned replacing Mezcal with vodka in a martini, are there any traditional or more common cocktails we should also try replacing Mezcal in?
Ryan Fleming:
When I tell you this, it may blow your mind. Most gin cocktails are a little bit better with Mezcal.
There are certain times you need botanicals, but a lot of really good classic gin cocktails, if you sub them for Mezcal, are absolutely fantastic.
Joe Winger:I’m shocked because most gins have such unique aromatics.
Ryan Fleming:
Which Mezcal has so many of those same unique terpenes going on that it changes the cocktail, but it works.
So instead of having botanicals, you have all these beautiful vegetal and mineral notes that just come from agaves.
Joe Winger:What are the biggest misconceptions in the world of Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
A lot of people have a misconception, especially on the trade side, that we have grown exponentially. It’s been a lot of hard work. People think we have this massive team behind us. There’s less than 20 of us on the whole team. That includes our team down in Oaxaca, who watches over manufacturing and production for us down there.
We don’t have an office. We have a little tiny apartment in Venice for meetings.
A lot of people don’t understand the hard work that goes into creating a small brand. It’s just a lot of people working hard to create beautiful Mezcal, especially the families.
People [unfairly comparing it to] tequila. What do you mean, we can’t get more? Why is it so expensive? We have people going out hand collecting wild agaves and harvesting espadine. All of that is hand cut, hand chopped. I’ve hand cut agaves with the families.
None of this is industrialized or mechanized like tequila.
Appreciate every drop of mezcal you have, because someone put a lot of love and labor into it.
Joe Winger:Ryan, as we wrap up, let’s talk about where can learn more about Madre Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
We have a beautiful Instagram. Madremezcal.com is our website.
We also have this Instagram called mezcal. Learning and it’s a little short videos and little blurbs to talk about production, families, history, and culture. It is focused on Madre, but it’s not just Madre, it’s Mezcal as a whole.
If you want to know more about our families who produce, where it’s made, you can find all that information on madremezgal. com.
Our bottles are in most of your nicer bottle shops, liquor stores. In California, we’re lucky enough to be in Trader Joe’s for the Espadine and Whole Foods has our Ensemble.
If you can’t find it, go to madremezcal.com and we ship bottles to almost every state in the U S.
We’re in nine countries, too. Australia. All over Europe, Costa Rica. We’re working on Japan and South Korea as well. So I’m just excited to see the culture of mezcal just expand beyond just America and see how excited because I, when I talk to people that are in London or, people in Australia, and they’re so excited about the idea of being able to get mezcal.
Joe Winger: What is the future for Madre?
Ryan Fleming:I can’t tell you about the big one.
But, [exciting things for] our Ancestral, which is pretty new and every batch of that’s going to be hand numbered and labeled.
We’re going to start doing small batch productions that will be very limited. Then the desert waters, which we have ready for summer.
Wine Pro Alan Tardi Returns to NYC for Beyond Bubbles Class December 13
Alan Tardi has worked as a chef, a restaurateur, a sommelier, a consultant to some of New York City’s biggest and best fine dining restaurants. He’s also written for magazines and publications, such as Wine Spectator, Wine and Spirits, Decanter, of course, the New York Times.
Today Wine Expert Alan Tardi returns for a conversation about his new Champagne, Prosecco and Lambrusco sparkling wine class Beyond Bubbles on December 13 at New York Wine Studio.
NYC Wine: Wine Pro Alan Tardi Hosts Popular NYC Wine Classes: Beyond Bubbles on December 13
Alan, thank you so much for coming back. You have a new class called Beyond Bubbles.
Can you just give us an idea of Beyond Bubbles about the class itself?
Alan Tardi: The class is going to take place on December 13th. That’s a Wednesday from 6 – 7:30pm. And the venue is the New York Wine Studio located at 126 East 38th Street between Park and Lexington, so a couple blocks away from Grand Central Station in New York City.
It’s going to be called Beyond Bubbles. I’m really focusing on three archetypal sparkling wines. Champagne, Lambrusco, Prosecco.
And I have to say Prosecco from the original growing area, Cornigliano Valdiviadene, not the extended one right now.
These are the sparkling wines that, to me, took their own path and they can, in the case of Lambrusco and Prosecco they’re really ancient grape varieties that have been going on for a very long time.
Champagne, they’ve been making wine for a very long time. But as we’ll talk about, which is really fascinating, they’re adjacent to Burgundy and they’re both in close proximity to Paris where the King and the royal kingdom was. They were very competitive with their wine.
The counts in Champagne and the Dukes in Burgundy. They were really vying for their wine for the favor of the King. But Champagne, like Burgundy, began making it for a long time, hundreds of years, still wines. And when, and that was what they made for a long time.
In your class Beyond bubbles, can you give us an idea of how many bottles are going to be tasting from and learning about, and maybe one or two that are extra special to you?
Alan Tardi: We’re going to be tasting 10 wines. Three from Lambrusco, a very misunderstood wine. The grapes for Lambrusco are wild. Prosecco and Champagne.
The class is Beyond Bubbles. Wednesday, December 13th, tickets are on sale. Now it’s coming up very quickly.
Let’s really dive deep for a second and just get to know champagne’s history. The whole idea of sparkling wine was an accident.
Alan Tardi: Yes. It was originally considered a flub because they were trying to make still wines to be in competition with Burgundy and they were very good at it. The still wines of Champagne were highly regarded.
So it did happen by accident. What happened is that Champagne is much further North than Burgundy. It’s at the breaking point beyond 45 degrees North where grapes can’t grow anymore. So they had a hard time making wine. it got very cold after harvest. One of the big customers for champagne was England and they shipped a lot of wine in barrel to England.
They were put into barrels once the fermentation stopped, because it got very cold and then they would ship them to England eventually in the springtime..
Because they finished their fermentation too early because it got cold, the fermentation stopped. Once it got warm again, the ferment: the remaining sugar went to work on the remaining yeast and it created bubbles in a closed container.
So when people opened up the barrel, it was fizzy.
When that happened in France, people did not like it because it was considered a flaw. England didn’t have a problem with that.
Eventually the producers said, wow, these people really want to have the bubbly wine. The King of France became very fond of this wine. So it really took off from there, but it happened in England first.
Talk a little bit about who “The Father of Champagne” was and how he tried to prevent this from happening.
Alan Tardi: It’s a really great story. Dom Perignon is considered to be the father of champagne. He was a chef and while he was a monk, he took over as the steward.
The convent had a lot of land given to them as dues to the church. He was managing the winery there in order to sell wine to support the monastery.
He would select different grapes from different places. He created fractional blending and fractional pressing of the grape so it’s very gentle and soft, which is very important for the development of champagne. But this was a still wine.
He was trying to make a still wine. When it spontaneously started sparkling, he considered it a flaw. He tried to avoid it with everything that he could possibly do.
It became extremely popular.
He said, “Brothers, I see stars in my glass.” And he was supposed to be blind by that point.
This whole thing of Don Perignon being the the father of champagne and seeing stars was made up as a marketing ploy by Robert de la Vogue, who was the head of a major champagne house. So they created this story around it. It’s a great story. I love it.
I wonder if that’s one of the reasons why champagne does swell during the holidays. When there’s decorations out and it really is a celebration.
Alan Tardi: I think it is. Sparkling wines bring something with them. There’s this effervescence, It’s like shooting stars. When they’re in the glass and you’re, you put them in your palate and they’re tingling and that’s all good.
Once the sparkling version was approved around 1725 by the King, it expanded throughout the world, it was a worldwide phenomenon.
You’ve mentioned the words method and process, share more about traditional champagne method?
Alan Tardi: It is a very stable process. You have to make a base wine. So you ferment grapes. They started sourcing different grape varieties from different areas throughout the extensive Champagne area. They would blend them together to make a decent wine. That’s the first fermentation.
Then they add a liqueur, called the tirage in French, it consists of primarily sugar, could be beet sugar or cane sugar; and yeast.
They’re put in individual bottles and then the bottle is sealed with a crown cap to keep the wine in the bottle. They would sit in a cellar for a period of time to create the secondary fermentation in a closed container. Like the initial fermentation process where the sugar goes to the yeast that is added to it. That creates a combination of sugar and yeast creates alcohol and carbon dioxide.
The carbon dioxide goes up, the alcohol stays in, and that’s how wine is made. But because [in still wine] it’s in an open container, the carbon dioxide goes out.
In a closed container [like in sparkling wine], in this case, a bottle, the carbon dioxide that was given off from the second fermentation was trapped inside the bottle. So once you open the bottle, the carbon dioxide would come up and out. And that’s where it comes from. That is what gives it the sparkle.
In Champagne, their method is known as the Method Champenoise.
They carry out the secondary fermentation in a closed bottle. Then, in the third part, they make the method Champenoise. It’s removing the sediment from the wine. There are many different ways to do it.
The most important common grapes for sparkling wine are Pinot Noir, Pinot Meurnier, Chardonnay. But your class reveals “lost grape varieties”. Tell me more about that.
Alan Tardi: These were grape varieties, typical of the area, that were used initially, but then people just put them by the side. The most important grape varieties were Chardonnay and Pinot Noir. Meunier was used as a workhorse, a filler, but it didn’t have the same identity that that Chardonnay and Pinot Noir had. Those are the three principal ones. Then [there was] these other varieties.
There’ve been major changes in the past 10 – 15 years in Champagne. It was driven by the Maison. Thousands of growers who supplied grapes to the Maison. Many times they would actually press the grapes, vinify the wine and then send the wine to the Maison.
They produced it for the houses. They didn’t have their own labels. That changed. A lot of the grower producers started labeling and selling their wine on their own. They got a lot of attention.
Some of these people were very loyal to the old grape varieties that were left on the side – they like Pinot Blanc, Pinot Gris – not very rare grape varieties, but people are not aware they are part of the grape varieties of Champagne.
Some people are really trying to promote those because it’s part of their culture. It’s part of their history.
There’s two others, Petit Mellier and Arban. It brings a whole new aspect to Champagne.
So we’re talking with Alan Tardi. On Wednesday, December 13th he hosts his new class Beyond Bubbles. One of those bubbles we’re going to be talking about is Prosecco. Frizzanti, Spumanti. Help us understand what these words mean, the region, how it all relates
Alan Tardi: Prosecco is one of the most misunderstood wines out there. There’s a lot more to it than most people are aware of. It’s not just a base for a Bellini or a cocktail, or just a cheap fix. There’s a lot more going on there than often meets the eye.
It’s a very old wine growing area. The original area is Conigliano Valdobbiadene. Fifiteen towns that make up the area in the hills just at the foot of the Dolomites in Veneto. They’ve been making wine there for a long time.
I have a feeling that the people who originally planted grape vines there were members of this Celtic Ligurian tribe that were up in Northern Italy, like in the Botellina and over in Liguria. They have this amazing capacity to plant vines in places where it’s very difficult.
Prosecco is very different from Champagne. I was living in Italy. I was going to Prosecco a lot because I did a story for Wine and Spirits Magazine about the Cartice area in Val di Biadena.
It blew my mind away. At the same time, I was starting to go to Champagne to research my book and I spent a lot of time there. I was finding a lot of similarities between these two very different wines.
Champagne began as a still wine called Coteaux Champenois. It had another wine in between. A sparkling wine, but a softer, lower amount of pressure called Cremant de Champagne.
In Prosecco, the traditional way of making wine was fermenting the wine. Then, they would put it in a container, either a barrel or a cement tank or in a bottle. The same thing happened. The fermentation would stop prematurely because it got too cold. Then, in the spring, when the temperature rose, the wine would wake up and the sugar would go back to work on whatever yeast was left.
Being in a closed container it would be fizzy. Now, in the bottle. The Italians had no problem with the sediment in the bottle.
I remember going there in 2013, I heard about this kind of Prosecco where the sediment was left in the bottle and people were a little bit embarrassed to show it.
This is actually called the Method Ancestral like they did in Limu.
They left the sediment in the bottle. It was just part of the wine. m In 1895, someone at Vinicultural Research Research Center in Asti named Martinotti, figured out they had a lot of sparkling wines in that area like Moscato.
Martinotti invented a system instead of having to do this process in the bottle, he created a large container with a top under pressure where the second fermentation could take place under pressure and then bottle it from there. It’s called the Martinotti Method that he created and patented in 1895.
Then 15 years later, in France he applied a sterilizing system. It’s referred to as the Sharma Method. That is the typical Way to make Prosecco not the traditional way.
Most producers in the area did not advance their methods until after World War II happened.
Mionetto, a very big Prosecco producer, only started using autoclaves in 1987.
At my tasting in New York on December 13, we’re going to taste three Prosecco’s. One is a still version from a winery called Bortolomeo, one of the most significant wineries of the area
After World War Two, he was very instrumental in creating a small group of producers and protecting their tradition of making wine in the area.
Now their daughters are running the winery. They’re still making a Prosecco. It’s part of the disciplinary of the rules for Prosecco Cornigliano Valdobbiadene.
That used to be the same with Coteau Champenois, the still wine of Champagne. You would not find those around.
While we’re talking about Prosecco, tell us about their growth — between the DOCG and the DOC?
Alan Tardi: One thing I want to say is that in the very small area of Corneliano, Corneliano about to be out in a Prosecco, DOCG. In about 2009, because of the large demand for Prosecco, and because of the fact that people were growing grapes and making wine outside
That appellation covers the entire region of Friuli and three quarters of the region of Veneto. So it’s a huge area, mostly flat. Higher yields, most of the vineyards can be worked, can be harvested mechanically. It’s a very different wine and that accounts for the vast majority of the 500 million bottles that are being produced.
The little area up in the hills has a much more complex growing area, soil to topography.
It hasn’t really been touched since the earth rose when that, when the sea and the sea receded on the other side of Cornigliano, there was a glacier that happened up in the north and it came down and just took all the land with it.
If you look at the map, the part is very narrow and the Cornelia part spreads down and is very wide and lower altitudes. So you have two very different soil makeups and different sections within the area. So it’s much more complex.
In 2009, they created the DOC and that’s when the original area, called Prosecco, changed its name to Corneliano Valdobbiadene and they were elevated to a higher level, a DOCG category.
They created subzones within this very small area. 43 different areas within the overall territory. If grapes come from one of those areas, they can have the name of that on the label.
At Beyond Bubbles on December 13, we’re going to be tasting the Tranquilo Prosecco from Botolomeo. We’ll taste a Colfondo from a young guy who’s been carrying on his family’s winery.
He always made wine in the cofondo method, and he just also started using the method traditionnel as well.
We’re going to taste his Cofondo, and then we’re going to taste Prosecco, Brut Nature, no sugar added, from the Cornigliano side, different softer, denser soil, lower altitude.
You can taste the difference.
That sounds incredible. We’re celebrating Beyond Bubbles, Alan Tardi’s new class coming up December 13th. One of the bottles, the Lambrusco. Can you talk a little bit about its reputation?
Alan Tardi: I think we should feel very excited. In the United States people still think about Lambrusco as a sweet, red, bubbly wine.
Lambrusco has really changed and it’s very complex. Usually wines don’t do well in flat areas, but in the Po Valley, that’s where they come from, they started out as wild vines.
They were cultivated by this old ancient tribe who lived in the area from about 12 to 6 BC, and then they just disappeared There are 12 different Lambrusco grapes. Three of them are really the most important because they have their own distinct identity and growing area.
Sorbara comes from the town of Sorbara, takes its name after it, and it has its own appellation.
Grasparosa di Casavetro, down in the south, it’s flat, but it starts to go up a little bit into the hills.
And then Salomino, in the north, which is the powerhouse of the three.
It’s really fascinating. They’re considered to be the most elegant because they’re all red grapes. In Champagne, it’s mostly white grapes. in Prosecco, the grapes are also predominantly white. There’s Pinot Noir that was one of these international grapes. It was permitted but only as a
The Sorbara is very light, transparent, elegant. There’s a lot of finesse to it.
The Graspa Rosa is dark red, juicy, fruity, floral, intense, foamy.
The Salomino is the workhorse, Sorbata is not self pollinating. And Solomino is often the pollinator for Sorbata.
At Beyond Bubbles on December 13, we’re going to be talking about unusual bottles. Tasting a Salomino wine from a winery called Lini 910, a wine is made using the method Traditionnelle. This wine is going to be 2006 vintage, and it’s spent nearly 14 years on the lees.
At our Beyond Bubbles class, I’m going to start with the Lambrusco, the oldest of the wines. Then the Prosecco. Then the Champagne. So there’s a buildup to that.
After the champagne, there’ll be a still champagne from the Valley de la Marne from the Mounier grape, and the Philipponat Champagne vintage.
After that, I thought it would be really interesting to look at two wines from made by people who went to the champagne area in the turn of the 20th century and they fell in love with champagne and they were compelled to go back to where they came from and make a wine using the champagne style method in their own way.
A wine from Trentino, Giulio Ferrari. And the other one is RTOs in in Catalonia in Spain, compare.
Alan Tardi’s class Beyond Bubbles will take place December 13, 2023 at New York Wine Studio. 126 East 38th Street New York, NY 1001. Readily accessible between Park and Lexington Avenue, just minutes from Grand Central Station.
Ordering Chinese food in DC? Hungry Panda want to Help
Leveraging their industry-leading delivery services, the Hungry Panda app seamlessly connects food, people and culture.
Hungry Panda goes further with Chinese Food in Vegas
The ‘Golden Panda Award’ is a symbol of excellence in the global overseas Chinese food industry, setting the highest standard for culinary achievement.
It stands as the world’s exclusive international honor specifically dedicated to recognizing restaurant businesses in the food delivery sector. This prestigious award embodies commitment to promoting and celebrating outstanding achievements in the realm of international Chinese cuisine.
Kitty Liu from Hungry Panda
Joe Winger:
We are here today with Kitty Liu from HungryPanda.
Help me get to know HungryPanda.com
Kitty Liu:
Hungry Panda serves a niche market for Asian communities. We were established in 2017, founded in the UK when our CEO and the founding team were studying in Nottingham University.
The platform was born from a very simple, but compelling need experienced first hand, by the founders as international students, struggling to find authentic Chinese food in the UK.
From that outset, Hungry Panda started to really focus sharply on that particular niche market, tailoring our user experience with Chinese interfaces to overcome culture and language barriers.
That’s how our app got started. We are very lucky enough to be growing really fast within the past six years.
Now we expanded into 10 different countries, including: US, Canada, UK, France, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea, and Singapore.
Joe Winger:
Different cultures, maybe different ways people use their phones, different apps.
What challenges has Hungry Panda faced as you enter the very competitive North America market?
Kitty Liu:
Local regulatory requirements that we need to meet. Every country, every region has different regulations, and especially with food delivery.
The U.S. is actually coming out with all the new regulations lately, therefore that’s one of the challenges as well.
Also intense competition from established local and global brands.
When we entered the North American market, Door Dash, Uber, the giants, had already occupied the mass market. In the Asian food delivery market, we also have competitors like, Chow Bus and others.
Obviously we were the new brand going to the market.
Therefore, that’s the main challenge that we faced. But, we were actually quite confident and, lucky enough because we have a very good team structure. All of our team members have experience opening markets in different countries.
So unlike Uber or DoorDash, when they are opening a new market, for example, North American market and Australian market is very different. People have different consumer behavior. But for us the good thing is, although we are in different countries, we are serving the same type of people, which is the overseas Asian customers, therefore the consumer behavior is rather similar.
Although we have the challenge, it’s easier for us to actually dive in and then adapt in a rapid rhythm.
HungryPanda
Joe Winger:
Is North America the toughest audience when it comes to regulations?
Kitty Liu:
With regulations, we’re talking more towards the drivers, how do we protect them?
Obviously there are minimum standards. Because what we call the “gig economy” is still considered a new industry, no matter what part of the world.
North America, Australia, the UK, all the countries are coming out with new regulations to actually protect this particular industry.
We are all at the same stage, growing from a new industry to a more mature industry.
Joe Winger:
Your company released a food trends report from 2023. What’s the biggest takeaway?
When you talk about Chinese food in North America or the UK, the first thing you think of is actually Cantonese food because [it] arrived first.
Now we can see all the hot Sichuan hot pots and malatang, all these are more modern and, trendy or more northern cuisine start to really get in the picture. popularity.
This is something that’s blowing our mind as well.
It’s a strong signal to the food industry to really focus on the authenticity, offering high quality ingredients. This is something I think is actually quite interesting.
Joe Winger:
Talking about trends, anything was surprising?
Kitty Liu:
The most popular category is definitely Boba tea. Now, as.
As we can see the hot pot, stuff actually, coming on top of, all this fried chicken, bubble tea and stuff. That suggests our local consumers start to really adapt into a more authentic flavor Chinese food instead of people always ordering honey chicken, spring side pork.
They learn to really understand, oh, that’s you know, Chinese people eat in China, they really start to learn and understand and admire about the spice actually in the food.
This is something actually I find quite interesting.
Joe Winger:
That’s really a big change.
Based on your 2023 report, any predictions for 2024?
Kitty Liu:
The rise in the family demands, so AOV ( average order value) keeps growing. Food delivery is not growing accommodating only for one person, two person, but it’s starting to expand, for more towards a family’s demands.
We can anticipate the age group that actually accepting or keep using the food delivery services actually start to grow and expand as well.
Also predicting new services for delivery companies. We can actually see the trend that many people start to order.
Pick up orders from the app and you can go straight to the restaurant to pick it up without waiting. It’s helps you jump the queue.
When you order a pickup it’s actually cheaper than ordering at the shop itself.
Therefore, this is actually one of the trends that we can see. It’s actually start to grow.
Joe Winger:
How do your users want the experience to go for them?
Kitty Liu:
During the pandemic, everything had to be contactless. Therefore the pickup feature was actually created during that period and blossomed afterwards.
Joe Winger:
Now you just mentioned the pandemic. Your company learned a lot from that experience, like how much packaging matters.
Can you talk a little bit more about what you learned about packaging?
Kitty Liu:
First thing we need to discuss is the difference between Asian food and Western food.
When it comes to Chinese food, generally it’s very heavy on sauces. Therefore, restaurants have to elevate the packaging standards to ensure the food quality can remain consistent.
When you order Chinese food, you expect it to still be hot, to have the best of flavor. Iit often [comes] with soup and if the packaging is not good, it actually leaks.
That has always been a challenge that Asian food delivery faces.
China created a new trendwith laminate packaging to make sure all the packaging is sealed and kept warm. That helped the whole industry globally to maintain higher standards.
Joe Winger:
There’s nothing worse than when you get the package to your house and it’s broken, ripped, it’s spilled.
The superior packaging isn’t about looking pretty necessarily. It’s about keeping your food secure.
Kitty Liu:
That’s right. Another thing we have to consider is [being] environmental friendly.
The Chinese food industry has been blamed for using too much plastic to begin with. Therefore, the new packaging uses aluminum.
Sorry, this part, you probably need to edit, The metal
Joe Winger:
So your Hungry Panda app itself has a lot of features. Can you let’s talk through some of the most popular features?
Kitty Liu:
Comparing with other apps, one thing we find quite convenient is that on the front page we have a very full restaurant list with tabs: by distance, by popularity, by discounts, by reviews, by delivery times. So it’s very easy for you to access.
Other apps have the categories but limited restaurants.
Joe Winger:
What’s the best way for an Asian restaurant to make the most of this opportunity of this new food trend?
Kitty Liu:
I think In the age of technology leveraging online platforms for visibility, working with a food delivery platform is definitely one of the ways to help them really engage with consumers.
When we talk about foodies, they are young, they’re always on social media. They’re always online. Therefore, promoting yourself in front of them is very important.
We use our channels to really promote different restaurants to help them to expand their reach within their comfort zone.
Joe Winger:
What’s your favorite food? What would you order on your app?
Kitty Liu:
My favorite food is [the same as] the trend report. Sichuan malatang.
So that shows the report’s authenticity. The audience like the food like a real Chinese person.
The reason why I like the malatang is because not only is it delicious, but it’s actually quite healthy as well.
It’s a hot spicy soup, but you put in fresh vegetables, fresh meat, it’s like you’re cooking your own hot pot
And it’s a very balanced and nutritious meal. Flavorful when you put all these different ingredients into one pot of soup. Brings you more flavors and it’s very fast [to make].
Joe Winger:
What is Hungry Panda’s user coverage look like?
Kitty Liu:
We have about 30 cities covered in the U. S. Obviously, New York, L.A., all major cities itself. I would be more than happy to provide you with the full on city list. We’re in Canada as well and just over 80 cities all around the globe.
Joe Winger:
For the audience who’s watching and listening right now, what’s the best next step? How can they enjoy this app?
Kitty Liu:
If they haven’t downloaded it yet,give it a try.
For new users, we actually have new user vouchers available for them to have a few free deliveries.
You can order to deliver, you can order to pick up it’s very convenient to use, very simple. Obviously we have a much wider supply for Asian food.
Therefore, if you are a Asian food lover, you should have Hungry Panda on your phone.
